Yeah, been there, done that. Five times. Now we are enjoying the point of our lives where the FOMLs will reverently sit through sacrament meeting, only interrupted by the sound of fingernails on the backs of white shirts. It was a long road. Mind you, our kids were really quite good, so I have no room to complain. I am grateful that the Lord sent relatively peaceful kids to our union.
Unlike some of the kids at church today. Yikes! Don't get me wrong - I'm not a tyrant about crying kids. I completely understand that it happens. What I don't understand is why the parent doesn't eventually take the kid out of the meeting. Do they keep thinking "almost there, almost there"? Let me reassure you: You are not "almost there". You have lost this one. Go out, regroup, and try again later.
I don't say this out of harsh judgement, or out of spite. Which is how I would have said it in my younger years. As I have grown older, and much, much wiser, I have had opportunity to sit on the stand and watch the baby battles unfold from the front. I have watched as parents frantically try to stop a baby from crying right in the middle of the sacrament with binkies, bottles, breasts and Cheerios - all to no avail. I have watched the worried glances and mouthed conversations as the panicked parents pass the baby back and forth, hoping one can accomplish what the other can't. I have watched the sheepish/embarrassed/apologetic/angry expressions as one of the parents stumbles out of the pew with the victorious babe in arms. More than feeling irritated by the drama, I just grin, remember the days, and offer up a prayer of gratitude that it isn't me.
To those people who get bent out of shape when a baby cries, I would offer this gentle counsel: Repent you jerks.
I have learned this: Mom & Dad - Relax! It is not that big of a deal. Babies cry. Toddlers have blow-outs. Kids need "to go". Life happens.
Relax. Take a deep breath.
Here are a couple of quotes to think about:
This one is attributed to Brigham Young, but I can't find a reference for it...
"Crying babies are like good intentions: Both should be carried out immediately."
and this one that I can attribute:
"The reverence we speak of does not equate with absolute silence. We must be tolerant of little babies, even an occasional outburst from a toddler being ushered out to keep him from disturbing the peace.
Unless the father is on the stand, he should do the ushering."
President Boyd K. Packer "Reverence Invites Revelation", October, 1991 General Conference
Hey moms! Did you catch that? Next time one of the kids is pitching a fit and needs taken out, pass him to dad. If he complains, tell him you are just following counsel from President Packer. Then sit back and enjoy the meeting - guilt free. You're off the hook! (Thank you notes are accepted and appreciated)
Love those little ones while you can. Pretty soon they'll be old enough to sleep through the meetings by themselves.
(One day, if I get the courage up, I'll delve into how to raise reverent kids - and I promise it won't be about food and entertainment.)
Love it! Thank you for that. Today I ushered out a screaming 2 AND 3 year old, with my newborn in a sling around my middle. I'm glad people are patient around here! I think people get irritated when a baby is screaming/throwing a tantrum, and the parents ignore it. THAT is annoying.
ReplyDeleteI loved the "gentle" counsel!
ReplyDeleteYou said 'breast'...have you really seen women whip it out?? I mean I'm all for that but, wow!
My 2 year old is pretty good for S.M. Better than my 6 year old most day. But as soon as the closing prayer is said and people start standing up he is BAWLING his eyes out. He HATES nursery. Today I just brought him home to dad to take a nap so I could go back and 'enjoy' my own classes.
ReplyDelete(My comments could go on and on with this one. I will keep it somewhat short and end it here.)
I will say this: I'm happy to have little ones sit near me. I'm in serious "I want to be a grandparent" mode, and no children who are delivering them. THere's a difference between kid noise and kid screaming. I'm happy to hear a little kid noise around me during church; I'm happy to have screamers go to the hall.
ReplyDeleteI do know there is some point in every three year old's life where he learns if he screams he gets to go out, and some parents have to sort through that, which may lead to a little struggle. (Of course, smart parents like me made life "in the hall" so miserable that no child would every want to go there, period.)
My goal every week is to just make it through the sacrament. Unfortunately, that isn't as easy as it sounds. It doesn't matter how much or what I feed my 9-month-old Baby Doll before church, 20 minutes later when all is quiet and contemplative, that's when she wants to pitch a fit. She tears at my clothes, flops around like a fish out of water, and makes just enough noise that taking her out is marginal.
ReplyDeleteAdvice is always helpful...
Sandy
I agree with Paul. If I needed to take my son out, he had to stay on my lap with me assisting him to keep his arms folded. He was not allowed to get up and run around. However, when we went back inside, he could play with his quiet toys, walk around between our pew and the one in front, etc. I don't think I ever had to take him out more than maybe three or four times in his whole life. Now, I admit, I only have one child, so I basically had it easy, but still...
ReplyDeleteI get these sporadic posts from "Anonymous" that are usually chock full o' good ideas and wisdom. Problem is, I don't know if they are from the same "Anonymous" or a bunch of different "Anonymouses". (Anonymice? Anonymi")
ReplyDeletePlease enlighten, if you can.
I have 4 not so "relatively peaceful" kids. (Makes sense, I'm not so peaceful myself..but I digress) My oldest escaped from me in the hall and bolted right into the chapel, past the hubby, and straight to the piano. At which point he started playing/pounding on the keys. I was mortified. It was High Council Sunday and not one person said anything other than how that small moment livened up the meeting. (especially the part when I caught up to him on the stand and he begins screaming "I want dad!!!Don't spank me!!!) He's almost 17 now and he doesn't do that anymore. I try to remind myself that when the littlest misbehaves. He probably won't do it when he's 17.....(sigh)
ReplyDelete"Crying babies are like good intentions: Both should be carried out immediately."
ReplyDeleteAnd let us not forget that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I'm grateful that my children are generally well behaved and occasionally even reverent. Any advice that could improve their reverence quotient would be appreciated.
I agree with everything you said. Two things still bother me though:
ReplyDelete1. People that let their baby/kid fuss for 5 minutes BEFORE finally taking them out.
2. People that make things worse or even cause the crying by losing their patience with their kids.
I just sent a link to this post to many, many young mothers in our giant zoo of a ward... you can imagine it: 30 pregnant women, 6 blessings each month, 3 nurseries, 3 sunbeam classes, and a tiny youth group... We need all the help we can get! So I say: ON WITH THE ADVICE! I promise I'll pass that new post on too! (I've been dying to know: Are you going to see the new "Planet of the Apes" movie?? yeah, I know, random...)
ReplyDeleteLest I am misunderstood: I love life in the zoo and I'm adding to the numbers too! We had a women stand up in RS to lecture the women on what bad mothers they were based on the noise in SM (thankfully I was in Primary so I missed it!) I say: Christ doesn't care if we're perfect, He just wants us to show up! Ward families=learning lab...
ReplyDeleteBecause we don't have more than 5 couples in our ward over 40, I must say that there are days I miss the 'grandmas and grandpas' who were always happy to help and love my little wiggle worms!
Wow... I really need to stop typing now!
Kandis: I have lived in a ward like that: 4 nurseries and a new baby every week.
ReplyDeleteHowever, what I found interesting about your comment was how smoothly you transitioned from describing your ward to Planet of the Apes. Maybe you ward is noisier than I thought.
I have never had to worry about noisy kids in church, only because I never had them; but now I have a teenage stepson who loves to sleep during church. I look at others his age who are awake, should I be worried that the minute he sits down his head is in his lap?
ReplyDeleteI'm with Paul and Anonymous, I see kids get taken out to freedom and running games in the hall. Then the next week parents wonder why the kiddie wants out again ?? On the other hand I see parents that bring NOTHING to occupy a child in the meeting, Many a time we nave ended up hosting another child on our pew just because we had a colouring book and pencils and they had NOTHING.
ReplyDeleteOur kids hardly ever had to go out, mainly because as Paul said being out in the corridor being made to sit quiet was so much less fun !
Mind you I should take very little credit for this as from before the eldest being born up to the youngest being about 3 I was sat on the stand !
Sorry. I'm "anonymous" on this one. And a few others of your blog posts, but I don't remember which ones. Well, one of them was the one when you were sick. But I'm rambling... It's often easier to post as "anonymous" than to figure out what those funky letters say to prove I'm not a computer.
ReplyDeleteI'm not nearly as annoyed by noisy kids as I am by chasing parents. That is, those moms and dads who allow their kiddos to crawl or toddle all the way up the aisle (or across the room) before they finally get up to retrieve them. By then, not only has the kid distracted me from the meeting but also the parent. Then again, it's been more than ten years since I've had a toddler so I'm sure I'm forgetting the level of perpetual exhuastion that drives parents to squeeze out just 30 more seconds of sitting still before they have to jump to action yet again.
ReplyDeletein reference to Tall Girl Running; maybe the child gets away from their parents before they can be grabbed. I have a four year old on the autism spectrum who as you can imagine is a handful. I also have an 18 month old who is quite a little busy girl herself. My husband works out of state for two out of three weeks so most of the time when we go to church it is just me and the girls. We rarly make it through the entire sacrament meeting before I have had enough. I can't necessarily keep track/hold of both of the girls and keep them behaved enough. We have help for my oldest during primary, she has an aide that is called to be with her, but once Sacrament meeting starts, she is all mine again. Today was the first time we were able to even partake of the sacrament in I don't know how long. Last week my four year old had me running laps around the chapel so I decided we needed to leave. They hadn't even finished the announcements. I'm almost to the point that I don't know what to do anymore.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous! I know the answer to this one!!! From personal experience, I know the thing to do is ask you RS President to bring it up in Ward Council. Something BEYOND the aid your daughter has for primary. They can work together and find you some help - a grandma with a comfortable lap, a young woman who needs service, a childless couple who would love to help. Get others involved. We are here to bear one another's burdens. Let them help you!!! And let me know how it goes.
ReplyDeleteGreat post! I've been looking for that Elder Packer talk for years! I'd heard it long before getting married, and have been trying to find it ever since, but when people ask why I'm always the one taking out the kids (except nursing infants), I always had to say, "Well, there was some GA sometime that said something about it. . ."
ReplyDeleteSo glad to find the reference!
RJR said, "I see parents that bring NOTHING to occupy a child in the meeting."
Yeah, that's totally us. Actually it can be quite frustrating when people generously share their loot with our kids. It took us a few years to realize that with our kids (mind you, I'm sure every family is different), bringing stuff causes screaming, fighting, and the whole shebang. When we leave everything home (no food, coloring, toys, or books), our kids do much better.
As for the foyer-fest, we found a pretty good system: the kid acts up (6 months or older), and we go find a room where we can pipe the chapel sound through the speakers. The kid has to sit on a time-out chair, and is not allowed to get down from the chair until I think they're ready to return. For kids too young to understand, they have to stay on my lap until they're ready to go back. With four kids between the ages of 2 months and five years, we're to the point where only once a month or so does anyone have to leave--and we take them out the moment they cry out.
Brother Card wrote a good post on the subject back in 1997. I'm looking forward to civilizing my 4th child, when she's ready. I always feel terrible for babies getting the 4th degree from their parents. Babies who are too young for the expectations being placed upon them.
ReplyDeleteMy husband tends to let the kids wander, but I've taken some advice, and attempt to keep the child on my lap, wrestling so to speak, so even at a young age, she knows that the Chapel isn't a playground or monkey bars. After 75 minutes of that, I let her wander in the back of Gospel Doctrine. She's been crawling since 5 months, and we still have 4 months until nursery...
Found this post when I noticed another one on reverence. I just had to let you know that your idea that the stressed parents are causing the children to act out even more is true. Not like, true-in-my-experience-true (well that) but true-researchers-have-figured-it-out-true. (Sorry I can't provide a reference on it, but we share it with our stressed parents at the preschool when they say they can't figure out what is up with their children lately. Most of the time you can see the lightbulb go off over their head when we ask them about it.)
ReplyDelete